Comments on: Is Moria the Promised Land?

By: coldbear

coldbear — Tue, 08 Dec 2009 18:58:26 +0000

Loved the last sentence – it was the main focus of my graduate studies in National Security Studies and the one thing running through my head for the entirety of reading your article.

Good stuff. Now if only WoW would almost explicitly make the same type of conflict happen someplace between the Horde and the Alliance.

By: Dragon Age and the Problem of the Darkspawn « The Angry Bear (ALPHA)

Dragon Age and the Problem of the Darkspawn « The Angry Bear (ALPHA) — Tue, 03 Nov 2009 21:57:43 +0000

[...] sentient beings. Even when the cause is just, the process is tragic. Like my recent bout of guilt fighting the Morroval in Moria, I’m wondering how to feel about the Darkspawn I’ve [...]

By: J-I

J-I — Mon, 26 Oct 2009 12:43:25 +0000

Yes. And if we think about it, we ARE using arrow keys on our computers..all the time…, which are from ancient times used to point things out, often with the intent to kill. So when using them, we are actually supporting “arrow-dealers” or armsdealers in our time.
Seriously, it’s a GAME. There are no morals. There can be no ethics, because all we do is push buttons that somehow changes some lightswitches on our computer screen. You can read anything you want out of almost anything if you think philosophically about it. If you have moral objections to something in the game, don’t PAY to play it. It’s there for pure entertainment! (BTW Lord of the Rings is not a true story)

By: Mirl

Mirl — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 23:58:33 +0000

According to Tolkein orcs are pure evil, they have no redeeming qualities whatsoever, so why should we feel sorry for them?

Looking at it from a dwarf perspective – the dwarves built Khazad Dum why should any other creature have any right to claim what their forefathers built with their own hands? While the dwarves are by no means perfect that are in no way inherently evil in the way that Sauron and the majority of his forces are.

Tim said “A truly enlightened MMO would actually give you a real *choice* to help or not to help deposing the goblins et al. ” and I agree with that to a point but I don’t think that aspect of an MMO would be sanctioned by Tolkein Enterprises as it would not be in keeping with Professor Tolkein’s view of Middel Earth.

I don’t think there can be any real world comparison (to the Middle East or anywhere else) as there is no such thing as an evil race in the real world something for which I am very grateful!

By: Tim

Tim — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 02:34:41 +0000

“If you’re uncomfortable deposing the merrevail or goblins from Moria, you don’t have to.”

A truly enlightened MMO would actually give you a real *choice* to help or not to help deposing the goblins et al. But, as you mention, LoTRO penalises you through withholding xp if you make a different moral claim than the one the story dictates. Pity.

By: gildhur

gildhur — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 22:16:07 +0000

The benefit of these kind of discussions in the context of an MMO rather than a single-player linear game is that you can make those decisions for yourself. If you’re uncomfortable deposing the merrevail or goblins from Moria, you don’t have to. Yeah, it’s going to make leveling that much harder, but it’s still possible to skip all the content that you object to for any number of reasons.

As to your general point, moral relativism is garbage. Merrevail, goblins, orcs, nameless, are all evil. There is no debate there. The only real “innocents” in Moria are the beasts and bugs, but even they can be twisted and used by the Enemy to his ends.

By: delsyn

delsyn — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:28:13 +0000

Actually that’s not true at all. In The lord of the Rings, it’s Sauron, not the Free people who has the power. He’s got both the military and magical muscle to crush Middle-Earth. It’s only his fear that a champion will arise using the power of his Ring that keeps him from utterly destroying the West. In fact, the point of the book is doing the one thing that Sauron would never concieve of — eschewing the use of power by destroying the Ring. In Tolkien, virtue is found in humble and the powerless as represented by the Hobbits, two of whom go on to save the world despite their own weakness and failings.

By: SUMB44

SUMB44 — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:15:08 +0000

In the Tolkein universe, the “right” to do something is often equated with the “might” to achieve it. Thus, as the Dwarves and their allies are capable of pushing into Moria and expelling whatever is there now, the very ability to conquer is testament to the moral correctness of their quest. Inability to prevail through force of arms is evidence of diminished moral standing. It’s an age old tale… told by the victors.

By: Jess

Jess — Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:36:22 +0000

It belonged to the Dwarves and will so again . End of story.